[IBU] Building 10 Gallon System - Questions

Wed Jul 9 23:29:36 CDT 2008

Thought I’d compare photo’s to the link you posted. It looked similar to
what I get. This is from tonight’s 13 bbl batch of Zustandfest Pils.

Sorry if this doesn’t post correctly. Here’s four pounds of German Magnum
hops at the bottom of my kettle after whirlpool and knockout. The side port
is in the shadow southwest of Wall-E’s reflection. It’s about seven feet
down from the manway and a cellphone photo with my maglight as a flash, but
hopefully you can see the wort was pulled off clean from the side port. 

The drain is located in the
 uhm
 “bung-hole?”

hop cone.jpg

From: Mike Young [mailto:myoung at mikeserve.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:20 AM
To: David Coy; Lenderts, Brian; Andy Cleghorn; Iowa Brewers Union;
amesbrewersleague at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [IBU] Building 10 Gallon System - Questions

When researching larger systems, I thought that whirlpooling seemed like a
really good option when using pellet hops.  Here's a picture someone posted
from the NB forum after they whirlpooled and drained their kettle:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Brewery/MegaPot01.jpg  As
you can see, he just has an elbow pointing towards the bottom of his kettle
and he drains from the outside.

--Mike

  _____  

From: David Coy [mailto:dcoy at raccoon.com]
Sent: Mon 7/7/2008 11:15 PM
To: 'Lenderts, Brian'; 'Cleghorn, Andy'; Mike Young; 'Iowa Brewers Union';
amesbrewersleague at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [IBU] Building 10 Gallon System - Questions

I’ll kick in two cents worth

Now granted, I’m working with much larger diameter piping, but the channels
in my heat exchanger are pretty small. 

Have any of you tried setting up a whirlpool at the end of your boil? That’s
what we do. 

I have a side port at the bottom edge of the kettle and from which wort is
pulled out for knock out. I can elbow this through my transfer case to a
side port about ¼ of the way up the side of the kettle and set up a
tangential flow that forms a very nice whirlpool in the kettle. The hotbreak
and hops then spin up into a cone in the middle of the kettle. I then can
pull off wort from the bottom edge that leaves most of the hopbreak behind. 

Andy and Brian both mention a recirc that is used to pasteurize the heat
exchanger. Perhaps you could set up the out flow to get your wort to
spinning and get a good whirlpool going as well. You only really need to get
everything spinning really well and then shut down the pump. As the spinning
slows everything tends to settle in a nice cone in the middle of the kettle.
I whirlpool for less than 5 minutes. I was “trained” to whirlpool for 15
minutes, but a few years ago someone pointed out that it’s not the spinning
that gets the cone formed, it’s the settling as things slow down. Do an
experiment with stirring tea leaves in a teacup to see what I mean.

Have any of you tried whirlpooling?

DCoy 

From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org
[mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of Lenderts, Brian
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:48 AM
To: 'Cleghorn, Andy'; Mike Young; Iowa Brewers Union;
amesbrewersleague at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [IBU] Building 10 Gallon System - Questions

Thanks for the info Andy – I’m in the same boat as you.  If I recall from
brewing w/ Andy, I believe he has the Therminator plate chiller by Blichmann
Eng.  

I recently purchased the sabco false bottom (long overdue) as I had been
using a 10” flat false bottom.  I would suggest the Sabco fb over all others
as you get a better fit into the kettle and of course the diameter is larger
(=more surface area).  It’s great but doesn’t solve all the issues as I
found out this weekend.  I believe I was around 12-14oz of hops of which 5oz
were whole hops.  Like Andy, I can recirc and go right into the fermentor if
I want but I do go into the kettle for a few minutes to make sure things are
rolling.  Surprisingly I was able to get a decent flow rate w/ all these
hops in the kettle until the end with about a gallon left.  All of the
pellets seemed to have filtered through and did kill the flow through the
Shirron w/ about a gallon left.  

I believe the shirron is a great chill plate for the price compared to
others on the market.  I’m not engineer but it would appear the footprint is
a bit smaller on the shirron than Andy’s Therminator.  I would also
speculate with my single engineering neuron that the flow rate on the
shirron is more limiting than the Therminator and a counter flow chillzilla.
I suspect it’s this extra restriction that allows for the chilling
efficiency.  Nonetheless it is very efficient going from 212 to 72-75F with
July water temps.

In the future, I will rig up something very similar to the image below – for
my pellet hops.  I still plan to use a good proportion of whole hops (as
they last) but will use pellets inside such a bag towards the end of my
boil.  I will use a larger bag to hop utilization may not be a huge factor.
I pulled this image from the NB web forum for reference.  Discussions
indicate no loss of hop utilization w/ this gizmo below.  On the other hand,
maybe this fellow only uses 1 to 2 oz for a hop “demon”
.   I’m thinking a
larger bag will do the trick to allow for better utilization.  

I can also speculate I should be able to collect more volume from my kettle
as I often find the hops just suck up the liquid.  Tired of funds into an
expensive hop brew and only getting a few gallons from it. 

  _____  

From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org
[mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of Cleghorn, Andy
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:49 AM
To: Mike Young; Iowa Brewers Union; amesbrewersleague at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [IBU] Building 10 Gallon System - Questions

I would like to hear what you come up with as I have not found a good
solution.  I really need to since I have not been able to find any deals on
leaf hops.  I have a plate chiller and have been using a pie pan false
bottom in the boiler.  If I have at least 2oz of leaf hops, I can use as
many pellets as I need.  I do recirculate mainly to sanitize the chiller and
to set a bed of leaf hops over the screen to help filter.  I recirc for
about 5 minutes or so without any cold water and then about another 10
minutes with the water on to catch some of the cold break in the kettle.  It
isn't necessary to do that to get the temp down, I can run from boiling
right to the carboy and be chilled far enough.  If the ground water is
really warm I put an immersion chiller in a bucket of ice water and pre
chill my cold water before it goes into the plate chiller.  I have only done
this a couple times in the summer.

I have tried screens and other mesh to filter the stuff out, but haven't had
much luck.  I had a stainless scrubber that looked like a Chore Boy and
connected that onto my drain, but it had a tendency to plug up.  We stuck 10
gallons of barley wine once that had about 20oz of pellets in it.  With that
and the hot break their was about a foot of gunk in the bottom of the
kettle.  I ended up using a racking cane and taking it off the top.  Not
fun.  I have never plugged up the chiller.  I back flush when done then
recirc boiling water through it.  I have an older one that is thicker.   I
don't think it is the Shirron.  I could not heat sanitize it because it has
some plastic around the edges.  Like the threads, the plates are sharp and
the plastic helps to keep from cutting yourself.

March pumps work pretty well.  I have had a few.  I still have a brass one,
but the plastic ones seem to hold up to the boiling temp ok.  They are a bit
brittle and if you are not careful you break the pump housing so mounting it
securely in an out of the way spot is a good idea.  They are not water
tight, so don't put it in a place where it could get water with out some
type of cover.  If it is under a burner I would put on a heat shield, too.
You do need to get to it to oil it occasionally.  They will push quite a
ways, but won't lift a foot.  Put it at the bottom or you will have priming
problems.  The valve may be handy, but all you have to is either take the
discharge hose off or lower it down to get the liquid to push the air out.

Two things I would do differently with mine.  Mine has a higher hot liquor
tank and then the mash tun and boiler on the same level.  I added a couple
inches of space between the tun and the boiler, but didn't do that between
the tun and the liquor tank.  The burner from the liquor tank is too close
to the top of the mash tun and it gets very hot.  It sounds like your
configuration will be different, but just be aware of how close things are
together.  Mine doesn't make a lot of difference unless I am doing back to
back brews.

The other thing is about the quick connects.  I have the 1/2 NPT and female
quick connect mounted on the kegs and the pump and then the barb male
fittings on the hoses.  If I was going to do it again, I would go the other
way.  1/2 male NPT quick connects and barb females.  The female fittings
stick out too far from the kegs and I have broken a couple.  Also the
females cost more and you use less of them if you put them on the hoses.

If anyone knows of a place that would sell that super fine S/S screen like
the Hop Stopper uses, I would be interested in buying some and
experimenting.

  _____  

From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org
[mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of Mike Young
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 1:42 PM
To: Iowa Brewers Union; amesbrewersleague at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [IBU] Building 10 Gallon System - Questions

After brewing three 5 gallon batches of beer in the last three days, I've
decided that I need to build a 10 gallon all-grain brew system.  I've got a
couple kegs that are waiting to become my hot liquor tank and boil kettle
and I just ordered two Bayou Classic SQ14 burner stands w/ burners today
from Amazon that I've read will support a keggle just fine.  I'm planning on
putting my hot liquor tank and boil kettle directly on the burners and
building a wooden stand to elevate my mash tun cooler above the boil kettle
so I can gravity feed my wort into the boil kettle.  I'll mount a march pump
on the bottom of the wooden cooler stand and use that to pump my hot water
into the mash tun.  I was also planning on using the pump to push my wort
through a Shirron chiller (not purchased yet) to cool it down.  That being
said, I've got a few questions to ask my fellow brewers:

When using the Shirron chiller, what type of pickup tube do you use so the
chiller won't get clogged?  I use pellet hops exclusively, and have seen
several different options that I could use (whirlpooling, Hop Stopper (too
expensive), and a hop bag).  The idea of a hop bag seems nice, but I don't
really want to give up hop utilization.  whirlpooling seems nice as well,
but I've read several posts online where people have problems.  I've seen
several people that just use a piece of copper tubing directed at the side
of the kettle and pinched slightly.  What do you guys use that works well
for you?

Also related to the Shirron chiller, do you have to recirculate the wort
back to the boil kettle to chill it down, or do you find that just running
it through the chiller and straight into the fermenters works well for you?
I'll probably do some initial testing when I get my system built, but it
would be nice to know what to expect.

I'd also like to know what everyone's experience with the March pump as
been.  From what I've read, you want the pump to be below the liquid you are
planning on pumping since it isn't self-priming.  I found the following link
which explains add a little valve that makes it easier to prime.  I think
that's probably what I'm going to do:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1456549408053500498HeldvV

I think that's about all the questions I've got for now.  If anyone has any
helpful hints I'd be glad to hear them as well.

-----Message Disclaimer-----

This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the individual or
entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
reply email to Connect at principal.com and delete or destroy all copies of
the original message and attachments thereto. Email sent to or from the
Principal Financial Group or any of its member companies may be retained
as required by law or regulation.

Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an Electronic signature
for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act (UETA) or the
Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act ("E-Sign")
unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message.

While this communication may be used to promote or market a transaction
or an idea that is discussed in the publication, it is intended to provide
general information about the subject matter covered and is provided with
the understanding that The Principal is not rendering legal, accounting,
or tax advice. It is not a marketed opinion and may not be used to avoid
penalties under the Internal Revenue Code. You should consult with
appropriate counsel or other advisors on all matters pertaining to legal,
tax, or accounting obligations and requirements.

This communication is for use by the intended recipient and contains
information that may be Privileged, confidential or copyrighted under
applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
formally notified that any use, copying or distribution of this e-mail,
in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender by
return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. Unless explicitly
and conspicuously designated as "E-Contract Intended", this e-mail does
not constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment, or an acceptance
of a contract offer. This e-mail does not constitute a consent to the
use of sender's contact information for direct marketing purposes or for
transfers of data to third parties.

Francais Deutsch Italiano  Espanol  Portugues  Japanese  Chinese  Korean

           http://www.DuPont.com/corp/email_disclaimer.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iowabrewersunion.org/pipermail/ibu/attachments/20080709/72ee1d44/attachment-0001.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 26415 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.iowabrewersunion.org/pipermail/ibu/attachments/20080709/72ee1d44/attachment-0002.jpe 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 5584 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.iowabrewersunion.org/pipermail/ibu/attachments/20080709/72ee1d44/attachment-0003.jpe 