[IBU] [list] FW: FW: Lift the Limit
Joe Stutler
joe at stutler.biz
Wed Jan 23 16:09:50 CST 2008
Here's the email exchange between Ray and I this afternoon:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Stutler
Sent: Wed 2008-01-23 16:04
To: Zirkelbach, Ray [LEGIS]
Cc:
Subject: RE: Craft Beer in Iowa
Ray,
Basic idea is there is a disconnect between the rules for wine and the rules for beer in Iowa. I don't have all the details at this point, but the basic definition of "Beer" as defined in Iowa Administrative Code, Section 123.3 (Definitions) subsection 7 is wrong:
7. "Beer" means any liquid capable of being used for beverage purposes made by the fermentation of an infusion in potable water of barley, malt, and hops, with or without unmalted grains or decorticated and degerminated grains or made by the fermentation of or by distillation of the fermented products of fruit, fruit extracts, or other agricultural products, containing more than one-half of one percent of alcohol by volume but not more than five percent of alcohol by weight but not including mixed drinks or cocktails mixed on the premises.
The phrase "but not more than five percent of alcohol by weight" is irrelevant to beer. Various styles of beer are often more than 5% - Barley Wine, Russian Imperial Stout, various Belgian ales, etc. Some styles can exceed 20% (Samuel Adams Millennium & Utopia, eisbock, Dogfish Head World Wide Stout, etc.). Folks that are going to consume higher gravity beers are not kids - a bottle of Millennium, for example, costs ~$120.00.
It appears that subsection 3 will also need to be adjusted:
CURRENT: 5. "Alcoholic liquor" or "intoxicating liquor" means the varieties of liquor defined in subsections 3 and 33 which contain more than five percent of alcohol by weight, beverages made as described in subsection 7 which beverages contain more than five percent of alcohol by weight but which are not wine as defined in subsection 37, and every other liquid or solid, patented or not, containing spirits and every beverage obtained by the process described in subsection 37 containing more than seventeen percent alcohol by weight or twenty-one and twenty-five hundredths percent of alcohol by volume, and susceptible of being consumed by a human being, for beverage purposes. Alcohol manufactured in this state for use as fuel pursuant to an experimental distilled spirits plant permit or its equivalent issued by the federal bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms is not an "alcoholic liquor" .
SUGGESTED 5. "Alcoholic liquor" or "intoxicating liquor" means the varieties of liquor defined in subsections 3 and 33 which contain more than five percent of alcohol by weight, beverages made as described in subsection 7 which beverages contain more than five percent of alcohol by weight but which are not wine as defined in subsection 37, and every other liquid or solid, patented or not, containing spirits and every beverage obtained by the process described in subsections 7 or 37 containing more than seventeen percent alcohol by weight or twenty-one and twenty-five hundredths percent of alcohol by volume, and susceptible of being consumed by a human being, for beverage purposes. Alcohol manufactured in this state for use as fuel pursuant to an experimental distilled spirits plant permit or its equivalent issued by the federal bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms is not an "alcoholic liquor" .
I'm not sure what else would need to be changed, but this is a start, and put beer and wine on parity with each other with regard to proof, etc.
Best,
Joe Stutler
319 389-7888
-----Original Message-----
From: Zirkelbach, Ray [LEGIS] [mailto:Ray.Zirkelbach at legis.state.ia.us]
Sent: Wed 2008-01-23 15:26
To: Joe Stutler
Cc:
Subject: RE: Craft Beer in Iowa
Joe,
No, it does not need to be in complete detail. I just need the basics, and then we can change/add later. If I could even get it by this afternoon, that would be great.
-Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Stutler [mailto:joe at stutler.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:43 AM
To: Zirkelbach, Ray [LEGIS]
Subject: RE: Craft Beer in Iowa
Ray,
Does the proposal have to be in complete detail or is there a way to do a placeholder while the details are worked out?
Best,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Zirkelbach, Ray [LEGIS] [mailto:Ray.Zirkelbach at legis.state.ia.us]
Sent: Wed 2008-01-23 11:33
To: Joe Stutler
Cc:
Subject: RE: Craft Beer in Iowa
Joe,
I would need a proposal immediately--the deadline to introduce bills is Friday. Thanks for the email.
-Ray
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McAndrews [mailto:markmcandrews at msn.com]
Sent: Wed 2008-01-23 15:59
To: Sabus, Brian; Joe Stutler; Travis Scheidecker; brian.anderson at pearson.com; dave-coughlin at uiowa.edu; Franklin, Matthew; markrippe at theescogroup.com; Papkin, Larry; TravisSavchenko; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org; dcoy at raccoon.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [IBU] [list] FW: FW: Lift the Limit
Chapter 123 of the Iowa Code deals with Alcoholic Beverage Control.
I'm no expert on this subject, but just giving the code a quick perusal it seems to me the problem is that the state has a monopoly on 'alcoholic liquor' as defined in section 123.3. Amending section 123.3 definitions as shown below would seem to do most of what we want. Obviosly this needs to be done by someone versed in the law, but I hadn't looked at the law in a couple of years.
5. "Alcoholic liquor" or "intoxicating liquor" means the varieties of liquor defined in subsections 3 and 33 which contain more than five percent of alcohol by weight, beverages made as described in subsection 7 which beverages contain more than five fifteen percent of alcohol by weight but which are not wine as defined in subsection 37, and every other liquid or solid, patented or not, containing spirits and every beverage obtained by the process described in subsection 37 containing more than seventeen percent alcohol by weight or twenty-one and twenty-five hundredths percent of alcohol by volume, and susceptible of being consumed by a human being, for beverage purposes. Alcohol manufactured in this state for use as fuel pursuant to an experimental distilled spirits plant permit or its equivalent issued by the federal bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms is not an "alcoholic liquor" .
7. "Beer" means any liquid capable of being used for beverage purposes made by the fermentation of an infusion in potable water of barley, malt, and hops, with or without unmalted grains or decorticated and degerminated grains or made by the fermentation of or by distillation of the fermented products of fruit, fruit extracts, or other agricultural products, containing more than one-half of one percent of alcohol by volume but not more than five fifteen percent of alcohol by weight but not including mixed drinks or cocktails mixed on the premises.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sabus, Brian <mailto:brian.sabus at pioneer.com>
To: Joe Stutler <mailto:joe at stutler.biz> ; Travis Scheidecker <mailto:3bbrewer at gmail.com> ; brian.anderson at pearson.com ; dave-coughlin at uiowa.edu ; Franklin, Matthew <mailto:MFranklin at aegonusa.com> ; markrippe at theescogroup.com ; Papkin, Larry <mailto:LPapkin at aegonusa.com> ; TravisSavchenko <mailto:traviss at rawality.com> ; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org ; dcoy at raccoon.com ; ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org ; randle.boyd at mchsi.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [IBU] [list] FW: FW: Lift the Limit
I just sent this note to Steve Falck as I’d like to get his input on this ASAP; he is the consultant that brought this to Ray’s attention and he may have some additional comments.
-Brian
_____
From: Joe Stutler [mailto:joe at stutler.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:57 AM
To: Travis Scheidecker; brian.anderson at pearson.com; dave-coughlin at uiowa.edu; Franklin, Matthew; markrippe at theescogroup.com; Papkin, Larry; TravisSavchenko; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org; dcoy at raccoon.com; ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org; randle.boyd at mchsi.com; Sabus, Brian
Subject: RE: [list] FW: [IBU] FW: Lift the Limit
I just heard back from Rep. Ray Zirkelback...
Joe,
I would need a proposal immediately--the deadline to introduce bills is Friday. Thanks for the email.
-Ray
Here's the bill from the NC Legislature:
GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA
SESSION 2005
SESSION LAW 2005-277
HOUSE BILL 392
AN ACT TO amend the definition of a malt beverage under the Alcoholic Beverage control laws.
The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:
SECTION 1. G.S. 18B‑101(9) reads as rewritten:
"(9) 'Malt beverage' means beer, lager, malt liquor, ale, porter, and any other brewed or fermented beverage containing at least one‑half of one percent (0.5%), and not more than six percent (6%), fifteen percent (15%), alcohol by volume. Any malt beverage containing more than six percent (6%) alcohol by volume shall bear a label clearly indicating the alcohol content of the malt beverage."
SECTION 2. G.S. 105‑113.68(a) reads as rewritten:
"(a) Definitions. – As used in this Article, unless the context clearly requires otherwise:
(1) "ABC Commission" means ABC Commission. – the The North Carolina Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission established under G.S. 18B‑200.
(2) Repealed by Session Laws 2004‑170, s. 6, effective August 2, 2004.
(3) "ABC permit" means a written or printed authorization issued by the ABC Commission pursuant to Chapter 18B, other than a purchase‑transportation permit. Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, "ABC permit" means a presently valid permit.ABC permit. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(4) "Alcoholic beverage" means a beverage containing at least one half of one percent (0.5%) alcohol by volume, including malt beverages, unfortified wine, fortified wine, spirituous liquor, and mixed beverages.Alcoholic beverage. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(5) "Fortified wine" means any wine, of more than sixteen percent (16%) and no more than twenty‑four percent (24%) alcohol by volume, made by fermentation from grapes, fruits, berries, rice, or honey; or by the addition of pure cane, beet, or dextrose sugar; or by the addition of pure brandy from the same type of grape, fruit, berry, rice, or honey that is contained in the base wine and produced in accordance with the regulations of the United States.Fortified wine. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(6) "License" means a License. – A certificate, issued pursuant to this Article by a city or county, that authorizes a person to engage in a phase of the alcoholic beverage industry.
(7) "Malt beverage" means beer, lager, malt liquor, ale, porter, and any other brewed or fermented beverage containing at least one half of one percent (0.5%) and not more than six percent (6%) alcohol by volume.Malt beverage. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(8) "Person" has the same meaning as in G.S. 105‑228.90.Person. – Defined in G.S. 105‑228.90.
(9) "Sale" means a transfer, trade, exchange, or barter, in any manner or by any means, for consideration.Sale. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(10) "Secretary" means the Secretary. – The Secretary of Revenue.
(11) "Spirituous liquor" or "liquor" means distilled spirits or ethyl alcohol, including spirits of wine, whiskey, rum, brandy, gin, and all other distilled spirits and mixtures of cordials, liqueurs, and premixed cocktails in closed containers for beverage use regardless of the dilution.Spirituous liquor or liquor. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(12) "Unfortified wine" means any wine of sixteen percent (16%) or less alcohol by volume made by fermentation from grapes, fruits, berries, rice, or honey; or by the addition of pure cane, beet, or dextrose sugar; or by the addition of pure brandy from the same type of grape, fruit, berry, rice, or honey that is contained in the base wine, and produced in accordance with the regulations of the United States.Unfortified wine. – Defined in G.S. 18B‑101.
(13) "Wholesaler or importer" when Wholesaler or importer. – When used with reference to wholesalers or importers of wine or malt beverages includes resident wineries that sell their wines at retail and resident breweries that produce fewer than 310,000 gallons of malt beverages per year.
(14) "Wine" means unfortified Wine. – Unfortified and fortified wine.
(15) "Wine shipper permittee" means a Wine shipper permittee. – A winery that holds a wine shipper permit issued by the ABC Commission under G.S. 18B‑1001.1."
SECTION 3. This act is effective when it becomes law.
In the General Assembly read three times and ratified this the 4th day of August, 2005.
s/ Beverly E. Perdue
President of the Senate
s/ James B. Black
Speaker of the House of Representatives
s/ Michael F. Easley
Governor
Approved 10:31 a.m. this 13th day of August, 2005
-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Scheidecker [mailto:3bbrewer at gmail.com]
Sent: Wed 2008-01-23 09:40
To: Joe Stutler; brian.anderson at pearson.com; dave-coughlin at uiowa.edu; Franklin, Matthew; markrippe at theescogroup.com; Papkin, Larry; TravisSavchenko
Cc:
Subject: Fwd: [list] FW: [IBU] FW: Lift the Limit
Hey Guys,
This is a thread that Dave Coy sent me from the IBU club. thought y'all might be interested.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Coy <dcoy at raccoon.com>
Date: Jan 22, 2008 11:38 PM
Subject: [list] FW: [IBU] FW: Lift the Limit
To: list at iowabrewers.org
From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org [mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of David Coy
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:31 PM
To: ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: [IBU] FW: Lift the Limit
From: David Coy [mailto:dcoy at raccoon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:15 PM
To: 'John Martin'
Subject: RE: [IBU] Lift the Limit
Hey everyone, great thread and this is something the Iowa Brewers Guild is very interested in as well. Along with all the other justifications for this legislation, please add that the local (small business) brewpubs and microbreweries are at a competitive disadvantage in that out of state brewers can bring their high alcohol beers into the state, granted through the state warehouse, but we can't.
I've been told many times that this push should come from concerned "citizens" not interest holding brewers, so please move forward with as much noise as you can on this issue.
DCoy
From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org [mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of John Martin
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:26 PM
To: Cleghorn, Andy; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
Great point Andy. Let's not forget another major goal of Lift the Limit...the freedom for our local brewers to make almost any style of beer! We would then be on a level playing field with neighboring states.
John Martin
Project Manager
515-699-7178 office
515-699-7179 fax
515-490-0605 mobile
_____
From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org [mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of Cleghorn, Andy
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:04 PM
To: ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
I think the people you really need to get behind this are the retailers. Remember, it isn't illegal to sell these beers in Iowa now - it is just inconvenient. Our tax structure is higher, but overall it isn't a huge difference if you find a retailer willing to go through the hassle. You can find Bigfoot at Wine and Spirits Gallery, John's and Cyclone for around $10.99/six pack. This isn't a cheap beer anywhere. I think I gave $9.99/six pack at Gomers. Flying Dog specialties (Old Scratch is 11.6% ABV) are around, too. So you need to get the people that have the most potential monetary gain to be for it. Get someone with deep pockets that have a chance to make some money interested (the Hy Vee's of the state) and you will have a much better shot at getting your argument heard.
_____
From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org [mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of Sabus, Brian
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:12 PM
To: John Martin; Mark McAndrews; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
From what I understand, Ray will have his legislative assistants do some digging on states that have recently passed these laws to help him draft the language, so no worries there. As to your other comment, I think a definite 'yes'. If/when this placeholder comes to pass, we should pass the word as the more folks rattling the cage the better.
_____
From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org [mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of John Martin
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:04 PM
To: Mark McAndrews; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
All good comments. This is very encouraging.
I think North Carolina lifted their limit about two years ago. Would it be helpful for Mr. Zirkelbach to have a copy of their proposed legislation as a template? Just a thought. (I don't have a copy, but a copy could probably be found somewhere on the internet).
Also, should we get the "placeholder" would it make sense to rally the troops (other homebrew clubs and the Iowa Brewer's Guild) around the state to encourage them to write their state congressman?
Cheers!
John Martin
Project Manager
515-699-7178 office
515-699-7179 fax
515-490-0605 mobile
_____
From: ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org [mailto:ibu-bounces at iowabrewersunion.org] On Behalf Of Mark McAndrews
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:07 PM
To: ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
This session is scheduled to be short & sweet, being an even numbered year --- they want to wrap up early and get home for campaigning. This session there will be little stomach for tackling tough or controversial issues. The coffers are full, the governor already wants to spend more than he has and the legislature will likely just slap down some of his condition of the state proposals.
The one down side to proposing this now is that in an election year MADD & the other neo-prohibitionists will likely glom onto any proposal as making the highways more dangerous and encouraging drunk driving. This will be an easy thing to twist in an attach ad prior to election. On the plus side few seats in the house are actually contested, so it doesn't matter so much. I'm game for any chance to get it on the agenda.
Also, expect the numnuts at ABC to claim there will be a loss of revenue due to decreasing taxation of the high alc beers. Don't forget to stress to your legislators that we all have a file somewhere on our computers with the best beer stores in Omaha, the Twin Cities, Chicago, St. Louis, KC.... so that we can load up on these beers everytime we cross the state line.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sabus, Brian <mailto:brian.sabus at pioneer.com>
To: randle.boyd at mchsi.com ; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
I don't know Randle, but I'll certainly ask him when I talk to him; it would be nice to have him give us the skinny at some point during the 2008 session.
-Brian
_____
From: randle.boyd at mchsi.com [mailto:randle.boyd at mchsi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:47 PM
To: Sabus, Brian; ibu at iowabrewersunion.org
Subject: Re: [IBU] Lift the Limit
Awesome. Is there any chance that he would like to speak to possible legislation at an IBU meeting?
Cheers,
Randle
-------------- Original message from "Sabus, Brian" <brian.sabus at pioneer.com>: --------------
Hello All,
Just wanted to let you know that a friend of mine whom is a legislative consultant introduced me to Iowa District 31 Representative Ray Zirkelbach 3 weeks ago over a couple of beers at the El Bait Shop. Well, turns out that Mr. Zirkelbach is a "beer enthusiast" and he called my friend again today and wants to put together a "placeholder" piece of legislation then draft some more specific language over the course of the next few weeks to change Iowa's 5% Law.
Anyway, I imagine he will also be contacting Mike England on this issue as Mike is our expert in this area.
Not sure what will come of this, but it can't hurt. Ray is the chair of one committee in the House so he does have a little pull. I'll keep you posted on how this proceeds if it indeed goes anywhere.
Later,
Brian
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